With this material Vespa opens a series of interviews with the most vivid and interesting representatives of the modern national conservative movement in Russia.
Opens our large series of interviews with the political analyst of the analytical portal geopolitics.ru Daria Platonova.
Vespa:Let's discuss the current situation over the past year on political fronts, both in Russia and in Europe, and throughout the world. Since for the pastyearwe all saw a lot: Trump's victory in the presidential race,and an attemptLePen come to power, a certain triumph of "Alternatives for Germany," the awakening of conservatives in Poland, the strengthening of conservatives in Hungary. What was it?
Platonov: Indeed, there is such a tendency - the formation of a completely new front, the front that becomes a legitimate and legitimate opposition to the globalist system. This new phenomenon, this turn was made in 17 year, these new forces, call them conditionally "the right alternative," began to come to power and become not just a leader of public opinion, all kinds of polls, but also a real political force, gain political weight (for example - the colossal success of Le Pen during the election campaign, as well as the fact of its passage into the second round). Marin Le Pen understood the logic of political history: the division into right-wing and left-wing parties remained in the past, the current political spectrum is a block of globalists against a block of patriots. She took the side of the patriots, namely the front. Against her stood a figure, completely blurred outwardly (Makron was right then used left political rhetoric moves), but internally - expressing himself an extreme globalist model. Macron, by the way, in the socialist party, from which he came out, was called the "chameleon". Macron led the war not with the "right" Marin Le Pen, not with the right "National Front", he waged a war with patriotism, with the people. This force is neither right nor left. In the rhetoric Le Pen combined conservative values, tradition, anti-immigrant discourse with the left economy, this is a breakthrough program. By the way, in many respects "breakthrough" it made Filippo, who diversified the party with the left economic theory. Now, as we know, Filippo left the party.
Vespa: Howdo you think there will be any changes in the course of the party?
Platonov: I think so. Unfortunately, I would not like to state this, but for the "National Front" everything that is happening in it is a failure, a defeat, a "surrender of positions." Not the departure of Filippo, but the deviation from his new agenda.
Vespa: Fromsynthesis of the right and left?
Platonov: Yes exactly. This was in fact an attempt to implement a new political theory. Many call it a completely different name (and the fourth political theory as well), but the essence is the same: the union of the best elements of the left economy (leaving behind left policy, ie without a touch of all gender theories, queer Satanism), with right political elements - such as conservatism, Tradition.
Vespa:The situation in France reflects the general situation in Europe or France stands out? Because, if you look superficially, in Germany, it seems, is a different situation, in England a different situation, in the East of Europe is a different situation. Or are they just phenomena of the same order, just a little looking differently?
Platonov: It seems to me that France was in the vanguard of this battle and in fact outstripped the rest of the European countries for several decades, because in France the presidential election of 2017 was the battle of the globalist candidate (neither leftist nor rightist) with the people's one. At the same time, the rest of Europe (Germany, Austria and the Visegrad Group, etc.) still operates in the register - the right against the left.
Vespa: Ie.do you think the people's forces in France are waiting for victory? Years through 5 or maybe 10.
Platonov: I do not think, Le Pen's party has now plunged into a crisis: here and internal conflicts, the search for the guilty, and the departure of key figures (Filippo). Intra-Party quarrels rejected the party from the course it was taking to win. Parliamentary elections in the summer of 2017 turned into a failure for the party.
At the same time, there is another force in France that has begun to work gradually and very slowly on the synthesis of left and right ideas, this is the Left Melanchone Front.These are radical leftists, whom the system is also trying to involve itself, then kick it out. In his political program there are positions of realism in the MO, and from the left doctrine (I'm not talking about his fellow party members) he takes precisely the anti-capitalist attitude, not the left-wing gender-style style.
Vespa: Onlast meeting of the discussion club "Prometheus" youmentionedabout the nascent movement of alternative leftists and that this movement can be interesting to the right. Is it possible to clarify the position, what can the left be to us?
Platonov: The dominant versions of the leftist movement in the West are capitalism. The argument is different, basically the following thinking: "We must accept capitalism, give it the will to grow and destroy itself from within." There are other points of view: about one of them, I would like to mention - alternative left - a completely new movement, born as a reaction to the leftist currents retreat from the anti-capitalist struggle. These alternative leftists put fight against imperialism, capitalism and liberal hegemony to the forefront of their battle.
Vespa: Itsomething reminiscent of the split between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks a hundred years ago in Russia
Platonov: Absolutely right. So, alternative leftists (alt-left) are those who do not agree with this mainstream phenomenon of accelerating (I interpret in this context as a position of support and stimulation of processes of deepening and expanding the capitalist system in the hope that this will lead to acceleration of self-destructive tendencies of this system and eventually to its collapse) and those who call not to depart from the anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist war, not to forget and not betray the interests of the proletariat, and also to resist the cultural Marxism, which nd now become dominant among left-wing movements. Cultural Marxism is the shift of the battlefield from economics to culture, where the main goal of the battle is cultural Marxism declaring the displacement of traditional bourgeois institutions (for example, the family, the church, etc.).
Vespa:MIt iswhether as short as possiblearticulatewhat are left alternatives based on - what is the idea, which world is the basis of their paradigm?
Platonov: I think it's rather difficult to implement, because if the alternative right has a doctrine of Tradition and identity related to land, people and faith, then the left does not have this concept. They do not believe in the Tradition and their main postulate is that the Tradition has already perished, therefore it is necessary to act in a new society, in the society of Modernity. As for their basic identification, it is a point of anti-imperialism and an attempt to create a pole of counter-hegemony (the non-acceptance of the capitalist world).
Vespa:Toh thereis it work through denial and until they formulate any creative concept in the long run?
Platonov: If they are asked about this, they will assert a new world without hegemony, without capitalist exploitation of the working class.
Vespa: Itsomething like Kropotkin's theory, such anarchism or populism. In general, nothing is new. What ifbackin the Russian realities, again at the last meetingdebatableclub "Prometheus" we talked about the domestic consolidation of the right, the viola–rightists, traditionalists, monarchists around a common idea.How real is this now and how much does it correlate with the mood in the West? Do we have points of contact with the right in Europe on these issues?
Platonov: I would be very cautious with the allocation in Russia of right-wing and left-wing political contours. We have everything absolutely unlike the West, a special type of life - an archeology. Our Communists travel to Athos, and the right-wingers can be ultra-atheists and defend left-liberal values. We generally do not have such a division on the left and right. It is possible, of course, to apply the CPRF to the left flank with a stretch, but what about their right attitudes in religion? A new doctrine, around which the right and alternative left could unite, and everyone you called - national-Bolshevism could become. Ustryalovsky National-Bolshevism is an important political model for the Russian Empire. Look at how the Russian people are sensitive to socialism and how it takes it. Practically as a religion, as a faith, and the USSR was a state of religious persuasion, only the Soviet man was worshiped instead of God, see how much mysticism is in early communism (Bogdanov with his idea of blood transfusion and the creation of a universal Soviet man). And at the same time, our love of tradition, our conservatism. The Russian spirit is always looking for some ideals, in which he will believe, he is looking for a higher principle, higher than himself, given by God. The Russian interpretation of both the left and the right is completely different from the West, and therefore our dialogue with the Western left and right is not easy: they can not imagine a union of the left and the right in general. At us it occurs or happens naturally. For us, this is not a paradox. For us, national-Bolshevism is natural, and for the West it is a break in the template.
Vespa:Those. The West still remains in some ideological framework of the past, and Russiadespiteto the fact that in some streams of philosophical thought lags behind the West, somewhere ahead of him?
Platonov: More than. In the last week I was thinking about how postmodernists could react to Russian reality. Such phrases as "Yes, there is hardly any doubt today" or "Yes, no, probably", which can be heard from Russian people, are absolutely hallucinatory for Western logic. At the same time, Western postmodernists called for the overthrow of logical hierarchies. It seems that in Russia, the project that was carefully described by the postmodernists in 60, the project of an uprising against the egocentric Eurocentric model, is realized! Show our reality to Deleuze (Gilles Deleuze - French philosopher - approx. editorial staff) ...
Vespa: In general, implemented in some deep roots and quite natural?
Platonov: Quite naturally, yes. Look at our tales, look, for example, how our culture perceives a man! If a man in the West is a warrior, a kshatriya or a philosopher ruler, then in our fairy tales or Russian folklore, a man is often described not as a hero and a good fellow, but as a boy with a finger or Ivan the Fool (and it is interesting that in the end this Fool overacts all clever villains, this is the Russian "stupidity" that exceeds the mind). We have a completely different culture, original, and in many respects it really is ahead of the West, especially in postmodern indicators. I think the project Rizoma (fr.rhizome"Rhizome" - one of the key concepts of the philosophy of poststructuralism and postmodernism - approx. editorial office), about which Gilles Deleuze dreamed, is already fully realized in Russia.
Vespa: In connection with the difference of these levels, is it true that in Europe now Russia looks like some possible savior from liberal postmodernism and at the same time as a country of some kind of freedom?
Platonov: Of course, I know several Frenchmen who moved to Russia consciously, in their right mind and in a sober memory, political scientists, quite young. They come here because they get tired of hegemony, of propaganda, and want to feel one more breathing more freely than there. And Russia allows it. I had an experience of living in France, a year of university internship in the beautiful city of Bordeaux. I can say that after the French year on my return to my homeland, I felt that there was a block on me: I began to pay close attention to words, try not to speak loudly about the representatives of the right political flank (in general, in France, I was faced with the fact that for this the left radicals could begin to threaten). It became scary when I realized that at some point I euphemized what I wanted to say or say in some more politically correct manner. This totalitarian grid of the West leaves a trace and even after a year of living affects me. In general, this is very similar to Orwell's novel. Big brother is watching you. Everyone thinks that totalitarianism in the past - fascism and communism are destroyed and totalitarianism together with them, but in fact everything is not so. He did not just not leave, but he subdued the whole West, the whole of Europe. What is there is a liberal dictatorship. With all the ensuing consequences: the arrests of politicians inconvenient to the system, repressive apparatus, propaganda. Accordingly, the peoples of Europe perceive Russia as an island of freedom, as an anti-totalitarian front.
Vespa: YesIs there a chance for Europe to break out of this totalitarian grid?
Platonov: There is a chance and the process is already underway. Look at what happened in the European political space in 2017: the significant strengthening of the Visegrad Group, its deviation from the EU course, Austria's approach to this bloc. And in Austria itself: the coalition of the "Party of Freedom" with Kurtz is a breakthrough, a new bloc is being formed ...
Vespa: Austria-Hungary ...
Platonov: (laughs) Yes, almost Austria-Hungary! ... And in fact it is a completely different empire, a new Europe.
Vespa: IndeedIs this movement in some new reality or is it some kind of reflection, a remission of conservatism that has been pawing for another ten years in Europe and will finally perish or is this a new breath, how do you see it?
Platonov: I have a feeling that this is a new breath and one of the guarantees that it became possible is Trump's coming to power in the US. Yes, there is nothing left of the image that we saw or wanted to see in 2016, when he spoke on behalf of the American people against ultra-liberal elites, yes, Tranp's binominism collapsed, and he became part of the system, but ... He implemented a "breakthrough of gradualism," the constant monotonous process of war with Russia and control over the EU was torn apart, his attention shifted to the Pacific region, and the "all-seeing globalist eye" simply weakened over the European continent. Europe got a chance to gain its sovereignty, to get out of the dictates of the United States. I think that the European space in a few years (decades?) Can become a neutral and independent territory of Rimland. The European nations themselves and those who came to power on the "populist wave" have already begun to transform Europe. I believe that this is not a remission, but a new milestone in the history of Europe.
Vespa: This national Europe, will be for plus or minus in Russia, will not resultthe nationalself-consciousness of European peoples in a large Russophobic campaign? That is, now they are looking with hope for Russia, and what will happen next. That is, if the Germans become Germans, will they not want to get a turn again from the gate?
Platonov: About the Germans: it seems to me that they will gain their national sovereignty at the last moment. Diktat, which is built over it, including ideological and philosophical, deftly built, including the Frankfurt school, was so defeated by the Germans that there is a catastrophically small amount of sensible forces there.
Vespa: I.ewho should we be afraid of so it's Poland?
Platonov: Poland, yes. But do not forget that we have common interests with Poland.
Vespa: (laughs) yes we have something to share and agree on
Platonov: (laughs) The Poles are gradually overcoming this Russophobia, I recently communicated with representatives of the Falang movement, they are called the extreme right, but I think they are just right conservatives. They are trying to overcome this historical Russophobia. It can be seen in everything.
Vespa: Concerningthe emerging revival of Europe as the migration crisis will affect? If you look at demographic studies, in the same Sweden in five years about a quarter of the population will be migrants. This will impede national revival in these countries.
Platonov: This is a very big problem and in fact in France this problem is visible to the naked eye. When you come to France you see not the city of white poets ... damned poets. (They laugh) a Freudian clause ... Not a city of damned poets from Lutetia (a literary magazine in which P.Verlen published his Poems written by the Poems - an editorial note), and you see something akin to a French colony. I'm afraid that the Europeans could pass the point of no return.
In Holland, despite anti-immigrant sentiments, the pro-Islamic parties almost went into parliament.
Vespa: I always found it difficult to call Holland a conservative country in their relationship, not even to drugs, but in relation to sexual liberties. These attempts to create, sorry Lord, pedophilic parties and others and others, in this regard Holland is a very heterogeneous country.
Platonov: Agree. But from the point of view of this very pre-election company, they were moving in an anti-immigrant manner (Rutte, in general, copied his whole program in 2017 for Wilders for the sake of intercepting votes). Gay rights ... yes, there are differences. Wilders, for example, does not enter the sphere in which AdG enters, for example, when they criticize 54 gender and list them at a meeting of the Bundehstag.
Vespa: Yes, Yes itit was beautiful.
Platonov: By the way, there are very interesting genders there, I looked at what they are called, there is a floor neither, there is a gender other, that is, "neither one nor the other and the other" and there are women who turn into men, there are men who turn into women . Funny and very politically correct!
Vespa: Do you understand what is happening in Europe, what percentage of people really do not succumb to this left-liberal propaganda and say so, keep their minds?
Platonov: I think there are very few convinced liberals - 2-3%, maybe ten. In France, for example, these are those who stood behind Macron: Attali, Bernard-Henri Levy. These people, yes, they are convinced, but their minority, in France they can be counted on the fingers. All the others are something like a hybrid of a man and a liberal creature, chimeras drawn in the laboratory of political correctness, these are puppets, the same members of the National Assembly resemble manipulated replicants who have implanted a chip into the head!
Vespa: Even among the ideologues of traditionalism in the West, many people are "patinated post-fashion patinaand seeking sources of supportTraditions among Islam, the East and other non-Christian practices?
Platonov: Yes. Traditionalism is generally a phenomenon of postmodernity. If Tradition is innocence, Modern is Sin, Postmodern, including Traditionalism, is Virtue. Something new and special.
Vespa: Downfrom metaphysical reasoning to the Russian and even Moscow reality. In the elections of municipal deputies, Yabloko and the Communist Party united against the ruling party, is it possible that such a union of Traditionalistsby somebody? Should we look for allies among moderate liberals, moderate or radical left? In general, what political force should we pay attention to?
Platonov: Before joining alliances and coalitions, we need to turn to our own identity, to understand who we are. In this sense, the latter meeting of the Prometey Discussion Club very important event, we started a dialogue. Now many rightists are closed in their idea. Many leftists in Russia are obsessed with an atheistic agenda. And if we want to break out of the political crisis, we must be ready for dialogue.
Vespa: Ifto look at Western Europe, then there is a revival of traditionalist ideas at the level of philosophical and grassroots, popular movements (identityists and so on), in Eastern Europe the support for the right-wing political elites (Poland, Hungary). These two different ways of returning to the Tradition will lead to a split of the European Union or is this a temporary phenomenon?
Platonov: I think a compromise will be found. It's just that Eastern Europe is a bit late in this division of the elites. It seems to me there will be no conflict between the two parts, but a synthesis. A single Europe, even if the EU collapses, can exist - Europe of Nations and Freedoms. Common points of interaction will be found - anti-globalization, anti-capitalism, anti-imperialism and the desire to create a counter-hegemony.
Vespa: Is there an opinion on the situation in the US? After all, we see that Trump does not realize all his ideas. He is bound to his hands and feet. In America, the left is strong, both in power and in society. What is waiting for America?
Platonov: For us, Trump is a chance to strengthen positions in different regions. For example in Syria, as soon as he came to power the situation changed dramatically and our troops began to gain victories (approx. editor - while rhetoric remains rigid).As for the United States, everything is not unambiguous, there are not only left-wing liberals, but also the so-called alternative left-wing, condemning and cultural Marxism and neoconservatism, originating in Trotskyism, and believing in the ideals of the left-wing communist movement. The right in the United States failed, the movement was discredited, including torchlight processions and a departure from the real formulation of the question of identity. I think that here it did not pass without provocations inside the movement. And altreit is now in crisis. The situation is not stable, and the US is expecting a possible civil war.
Vespa: If you failtotal,thenRussia,and Europe and the US is waiting for a certain crisis of ideological, civil tension. And where the pendulum swings to the end is not clear. there isdanger, that we will be thrown into the deepleft-liberalthe swamp.
Platonov: What will happen to the US is not clear, not being in that space, I can not say for sure. What will happen to Russia is also unknown. All the will of God. The situation is changing rapidly. For example, today liberalism attacks not only from the gender theory, but begins to use the metaphor of artificial intelligence. And in the Russian Federation the demand for such systems is growing, unfortunately. Therefore, the philosophical challenge to Russia, our right-conservative values is abandoned. The arrival of a posthuman in place of a person is a new threat.
Vespa: Onone of the "Prometheans" was expressed the idea that it is necessary to rely not on ideological and political views, but on the worldview. Can the world view combine European conservatives against left-liberalism and degenerate tendencies? How long will such a union last?
Platonov: I think this union already exists. For example, in the European Parliament "Europe of Nations and Freedoms", the league of Marin Le Pen includes representatives of more than 7 parties. It's not the future, it's the present.
Vespa: And Russia, the Russians, should we join this union and accept us there?
Platonov:Of course, they will accept and accept. Marin Le Pen met before the elections with the Russian president. The dialog is installed. For example, many European parliamentarians have visited the Crimea and recognize it as Russian. There is hope!
Vespa:There is hope for the future, but there are problems today. howDo you assess the expulsion of Russian diplomats initiated by the Conservative Party of Britain, are there any rightists in Londonallies, there areAre there right-wing anti-globalists?
Platonov:ЗHere we have an attempt to deploy not even a diplomatic but a real global war. And otvlivayut long-standing opponents - Russia and the Anglo-Saxon bloc. The problem is that all this hysteria began when Britain leaves the EU, renounces its ultra-globalist essence and passes into the flank of the neutral zone, the conditional Rimland. And it is at this point that someone "kills" the ex-GRU agent and there is a strange and sharp cooling of relations between Russia and Britain, and then all of Europe. We will not go into conspiracy, but such a situation clearly benefits the global forces that do not want to lose control over the European space and commit sabotage actions that could destroy our relations.
Vespa: Meanwhile нbut parliamentary electionsIn Italy, the party won the Salvini and now he has great chances to become Premier of Italy. But at the same time we see with what force the anti-Russian forces are mobilized. Is there a chance in these conditions for pro-Russian Eurosceptics to gain a foothold in power and break the Russophobian trend?
Platonov:Unfortunately, the results of the Italian elections are not so straightforward. Until now, a majority in the government has not been formed. Despite the fact that the Salvini coalition has received excellent results, it does not have a parliamentary majority. The situation in Italy is extremely unstable, experts say the possibility of a new election in Italy. Of course, the ideal situation would be a coalition of "Five Stars Movement" and "League of the North". Because they are quite close in Euroscepticism and the international political line, however they are bred today on different flanks of the political arena. In Italy - the situation of political uncertainty. A clear picture of what will happen in Italy, we do not. There is a certain tendency to destabilize the EU's elites, strong populist sentiments, but the "populist uprising", the populist moment at the moment, has not resulted in anything concrete. The parties that led this "insurrection" do not yet have the strength to change the course of history and transform the European space.
Vespa: Dasha, thanks for taking the time to chat. As a summary of our meeting, we can say that the world still has a place for Tradition, but it will have to be overcome?
Platonov: Certainly. Thanks you!