With this material Vespa opens a series of interviews with the most vivid and interesting representatives of the modern national conservative movement in Russia.
Opens our large series of interviews with the political observer of the analytical portal geopolitics.ru Daria Platonova.
Vespa: Let's discuss the current situation on the political fronts over the past year, both in Russia and in Europe, and throughout the world. Since in the past year we all saw a lot of things: and Trump's victory in the presidential race, and attempt Le Pen to come to power, a certain triumph of "Alternatives for Germany", the awakening of the Conservatives in Poland, the strengthening of the Conservatives in Hungary. What was it?
PlatonovA: Indeed, there is such a tendency - the formation of a completely new front, a front that is becoming a legal and legitimate opposition to the globalist system. This new phenomenon, such a turnaround took place in 17, the new forces, let's call them conditionally the “right alternative”, began to come to power and become not just the leader of public opinion, all kinds of polls, but also a real political force weight (for example - the enormous success of Le Pen during the election campaign, as well as the fact of its passage in the second round). Marine Le Pen understood the logic of political history: the division into right and left parties is in the past, the current political spectrum is a bloc of globalists against a bloc of patriots. She took the side of the patriots - precisely the front. A figure stood out against it, completely blurred in appearance (Macron was now right, then used left-wing political rhetorical moves), but internally - expressing the extreme globalist model. Macro, by the way, in the socialist party, from which he came out, was called the “chameleon”. Macron waged a war not with the “right” Marine Le Pen, not with the right-wing “National Front”, he waged a war with patriotism, with the people. This force is neither right nor left. In the rhetoric of Le Pen, conservative values, tradition, anti-immigrant discourse with the left economy are combined, this is a breakthrough program. By the way, in many respects “breakthrough” was made by Filippo, who diversified the party with left economic theory. Now, as we know, Filippo left the party.
Vespa: How do you think there will be any changes in the party course?
Platonov: I think so. Unfortunately, it would not be desirable to state this, but for the National Front everything that is happening in it now is failure, defeat, “surrender of positions”. Not leaving Filippo, but a deviation from his new agenda.
Vespa: From right and left synthesis?
Platonov: Yes it is. It was actually an attempt to implement a new political theory. Many people call it completely different names (and the Fourth Political Theory including), but the essence is the same: combining the best elements of the left economy (leaving the left politics behind, that is, without any rash of gender theories, Queer Satanism) elements such as conservatism, tradition.
Vespa: Does the situation in France reflect the overall situation in Europe or is France highlighted? Because if you look superficially, then in Germany, it seems, the situation is different, in England the situation is different, in Eastern Europe the situation is different. Or is it just a phenomenon of the same order, just a little looking different?
Platonov: It seems to me that France was at the forefront of this battle, and in fact was ahead of the rest of the European countries by several decades, because in France the 2017 presidential election of the year was a clash between a globalist candidate (neither left nor right) with the popular one. At the same time, the rest of Europe (Germany, Austria and the Visegrad Group, etc.) is still operating in the register - the right against the left.
Vespa: Ie. do you think the people's forces in France will win? Years after 5 or maybe 10.
Platonov: I don’t think that Le Pen’s party has now plunged into a crisis: there are internal conflicts, a search for the guilty, and the departure of key figures (Filippo). Inner-Party feuds rejected the party from the course it was pursuing to victory. Parliamentary elections in the summer of 2017 turned into a failure for the party.
At the same time, in France there is another force that began gradually and very slowly to work on the synthesis of left and right ideas, this is the Left Front of Melanchon. These are radical leftists, whom the system is also trying to get itself involved, then throw it out. In his political program there are positions of realism in the MO, and from the left-wing doctrine (I’m not talking about his party members) he takes precisely the anti-capitalist attitude, and not the left gende-church style.
Vespa: On last meeting of the discussion club "Prometheus" you mentioned about the emerging movement of the alternative left and that this movement can be interestingly right. Is it possible to clarify the position, than the left can be close to us?
Platonov: The dominant versions of the left in the West are capitalism. The arguments are different, mainly thinking of the following character: “capitalism must be accepted, it must be allowed to grow up and destroy itself from within”. There are other points of view: on one of them, I would like to mention - the alternative left - a completely new movement, which originated as a reaction to the retreats of left currents from the anti-capitalist struggle. These alternative leftists put the battle against imperialism, capitalism and liberal hegemony at the forefront of their battle.
Vespa: It something like a split between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks a hundred years ago in Russia
Platonov: Absolutely right. So, alternative left (alt-left) are those who disagree with this mainstream phenomenon of acceleration (interpreted in this context as a position of supporting and stimulating the processes of deepening and expanding the capitalism system in the hope that it will accelerate the self-destructive tendencies system and ultimately to its collapse) and those who urge not to retreat from the anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist war, not to forget and not betray the interests of the proletariat, as well as to oppose cultural Marxism, which th now became dominant among the left movements. Cultural Marxism is the displacement of the battlefield from economy to culture, where cultural Marxism declares the displacement of traditional bourgeois institutions (for example, families, churches, etc.) as the main goal of the battle.
Vespa: МIt is Do as briefly as possible articulate what alternatives are left-leaning - what idea, what world underlies their paradigm?
Platonov: I think it is quite difficult to implement, because if the alternative right has the doctrine of tradition and identity associated with the land, the people and the faith, then the left does not have this concept. They do not believe in Tradition and their main principle is that the Tradition has already died, therefore it is necessary to act in a new society, in the society of Modernity. As for their main identification, this is the point of anti-imperialism and an attempt to create a pole of counterhegemony (rejection of the capitalist world).
Vespa: Тoh there is this work through denial and so far they have not formulated any constructive concept by and large?
PlatonovIf you ask them about this, then they will argue about a new world without hegemony, without capitalist exploitation of the working class.
Vespa: It something like Kropotkin's theory, such anarchism or populism. In general, nothing is new. What if back in Russian reality, again at the last meeting debatable of the club "Prometheus" we talked about the internal Russian consolidation of the right, alt–right, traditionalists, monarchists around a common idea. How real is this now and how much does it correlate with the mood in the West? Do we have points of contact with the right in Europe on these issues?
Platonov: I would be very careful with the allocation of right and left political contours in Russia. We have everything completely different to the West, a special type of life - archeomodern. Our communists travel to Athos, while the right can be ultraatheists and defend left-liberal values. We generally do not have such a division into left and right. It is possible, of course, with a stretch to refer the Communist Party to the left flank, but what about their right-wing attitudes in religion? A new doctrine, around which both the right and the alternative left, and all that you called, could have become national-Bolshevism. Ustryalovsky national-bolshevism is an important political model for the Russian Empire. See how the Russian people are sensitive to socialism and how they accept it. Almost as a religion, as a faith, and the USSR was a religious state, only instead of God, a Soviet person was worshiped, see how many mystics are in early communism (Bogdanov with his idea of blood transfusion and the creation of a universal Soviet person). And at the same time our love of tradition, our conservatism. The Russian spirit is always looking for some ideals in which he will believe, he is looking for a higher principle, higher than himself, given by God. The Russian interpretation of both the left and the right is completely different from the western, and therefore our dialogue with the western left and right is not easy: they have no union of the left and the right at all. In our case, this happens naturally. For us, this is not a paradox. For us, national Bolshevism is natural, and for the West it is a break in the pattern.
Vespa: Those. The West still remains in some ideological framework of the past, and Russia despite the fact that in some streams of philosophical thought lags behind the West, somewhere ahead of him?
Platonov: More than. In the last week I thought about how postmodernists could react to Russian reality. Phrases like “Yes, no, today is hardly unlikely” or “Yes, no, probably,” which can be heard from the Russian people are absolutely hallucinatory for Western logic. At the same time, Western postmodernists called for the overthrow of logical hierarchies. It seems that in Russia, the project that was carefully described by postmodernists in the 60 years, the project of the uprising against the egocentric Eurocentric model, has been realized! Show our reality to Deleuze (Gilles Deleuze - French philosopher - approx. edition) ...
Vespa: In general, implemented in some deep roots and quite natural?
Platonov: Quite naturally, yes. Look at our fairy tales, see, for example, how our culture perceives a man! If a man in the West is a warrior, a kshatriya or a ruler-philosopher, then in our fairy tales or Russian folklore a man is often described not as a hero and a good young man, but as a boy-in-arms or Ivan the Fool (and it’s interesting that This Fool replays all clever villains, such is the Russian "stupidity", exceeding the mind). We have a completely different culture, original, and in many ways it really is ahead of the west, especially in post-modern indicators. I think the project Rizoma (Fr. rhizome "Rhizome" - one of the key concepts of the philosophy of poststructuralism and postmodernism - approx. editorial board), about which Gilles Deleuze dreamed, was already implemented in Russia in full.
Vespa: In connection with the difference of these levels, is it true that in Europe now Russia looks like some possible savior from liberal postmodernism and at the same time as a country of some kind of freedom?
Platonov: Certainly, I know several Frenchmen who moved to Russia consciously, in their right mind and in sober memory, political scientists, quite young. They come here because they are tired of hegemony, of propaganda, and they want to feel at one breath freer than there. And Russia allows it. I had the experience of living in France, a year of university internship in the beautiful city of Bordeaux. I can say that after the French year after returning to my homeland, I felt that there was a block on me: I began to be attentive and strict with words, try not to speak loudly about the representatives of the right political flank (in general, in France I was confronted with the fact that for this the left radicals could start to threaten). It became scary when I realized that at some moments I euphemized what I wanted to say or say in some more politically correct manner. This totalitarian grid of the West leaves a mark and even after a year of living affects me. In general, it is very similar to Orwell’s novel. Big brother is watching you. Everyone thinks that totalitarianism in the past - fascism and communism are destroyed and totalitarianism along with them, but in fact everything is not so. He didn’t just leave, he subjugated the whole of the West, the whole of Europe. That there is a liberal dictatorship. With all the ensuing consequences: the arrests of politicians disliked by the system, the repressive apparatus, propaganda. Accordingly, the peoples of Europe perceive Russia as an island of freedom, as an anti-totalitarian front.
Vespa: Yes Europe have a chance to break out of this totalitarian grid?
Platonov: There is a chance and the process is already underway. Look at what happened in the European political space in 2017: a significant increase in the Visegrad group, its deviation from the EU course, the approach of Austria to this block. And in Austria itself: the coalition of the Freedom Party with Kurtz is a breakthrough, a new bloc is being formed ...
Vespa: Austria-Hungary ...
Platonov: (laughs) Yes, practically Austria-Hungary! ... And in fact, this is already a completely different empire, a new Europe.
Vespa: Indeed Is this a movement into some kind of new reality, or is it some kind of reflection, remission of conservatism, which will break out for another ten years in Europe and finally perish, or is this new breathing, as you see it?
Platonov: I have a feeling that this is a new breath and one of the guarantees that it has become possible is the coming of Trump to power in the USA. Yes, there is nothing left in it from the image that we saw or wanted to see in 2016, when he spoke on behalf of the American people against the ultra-liberal elites, yes, Trump's banonism disappeared and it became part of the system, but ... He carried out a “breakthrough of gradualness”, the constant monotonous process of war with the Russian Federation and control over the EU was broken, his attention shifted to the Pacific region, and over the European continent the “all-seeing globalist eye” simply weakened. Europe got a chance to gain its sovereignty, break out of the dictates of the United States. I think that the European space in a few years (decades?) Can become a neutral and independent territory of Romeland. The European nations themselves and those who came to power in the “populist wave” have already begun to transform Europe. I believe that this is not a remission, but a new milestone in the history of Europe.
Vespa: This national Europe, will be for Russia plus or minus, will not result the national self-awareness of European nations in a large Russophobic campaign? That is, now they are looking to Russia with hope, and what will happen next. That is, if the Germans become Germans, would they not want to get a turn from the gate again?
Platonov: About the Germans: it seems to me that they will acquire their national sovereignty at the very last moment. The dictatorship that was built over it, including ideological and philosophical, deftly built up by the Frankfurt school, was so broken by the Germans that there were catastrophically little sound forces there.
Vespa: I.e whom should we be afraid of Poland?
Platonov: Poland, yes. But do not forget that we have common interests with Poland.
Vespa: (laughs) yes we have something to share and agree on
Platonov: (laughs) The Poles are gradually overcoming this Russophobia, I recently spoke with representatives of the Phalanx movement, they are called far-right, but I think they are just right-wing conservatives. They are trying to overcome this historical Russophobia. It can be seen in everything.
Vespa: Concerning to the outlined renaissance of Europe? If you look at demographic studies, in the same Sweden in five years about a quarter of the population will be migrants. This will impede national rebirth in these countries.
Platonov: This is a very big problem and in fact in France this problem is visible to the naked eye. When you come to France you see not the city of white poets ... damned poets. (Laughs) clause according to Freud ... Not the city of damned poets from Lutetia (literary magazine in which P.Verlaine published his Damned poets - editorial note), and you see something akin to the French colony. I am afraid that the Europeans could have passed the point of no return.
Here in Holland, despite the anti-migrant sentiments, pro-Islamic parties almost entered the parliament.
Vespa: I always found it difficult to call Holland a conservative country in their relationship, not even to drugs, but in relation to sexual liberties. These attempts to create, sorry Lord, pedophilic parties and others and others, in this regard Holland is a very heterogeneous country.
Platonov: Agree. But from the point of view of this particular election campaign, they moved in an anti-migrant key (Rutte generally copied his entire program in Wilders's 2017 for the sake of interception of votes). Gay rights ... yes, there are differences. Wilders, for example, does not enter into the sphere into which he enters, for example, AdH, when they criticize 54 of gender and list them at a Bundestag meeting.
Vespa: Yes, Yes it was fine.
Platonov: By the way, there are very interesting genders, I looked, as they are called, there is neither, there is a gender of the other, that is, “neither one nor the other,” and there are women who go into men, there are men who turn into women . Funny and very politically correct!
Vespa: Do you understand what is happening in Europe, what percentage of people really do not succumb to this left-liberal propaganda and say so, keep their minds?
Platonov: I think there are very few convinced liberals - 2-3%, maybe ten. In France, for example, it is those who were behind the Macron company: Attali, Bernard-Henri Levy. These people, yes, they are convinced, but their minority, in France, can be counted on the fingers. All the others are something like a hybrid of a man and a liberal creature, the chimeras derived from the laboratory of political correctness are puppets, the same members of the National Assembly resemble manipulated replicants who have a chip implanted in their heads!
Vespa: Even among the ideologues of traditionalism in the West, many people are "patinated post-fashion patinaand seeking sources of supportTraditions among Islam, the East and other non-Christian practices?
Platonov: Yes. Traditionalism is generally a postmodern phenomenon. If Tradition is innocence, Modern is Sin, Post-Modern, including Traditionalism, is Virtue. Something qualitatively new and special.
Vespa: Down from metaphysical reasoning into the Russian and even Moscow reality. In the elections of municipal deputies united against the party of power “Yabloko and the Communist Party of the Russian Federation”, is it possible to combine this kind of Traditionalists with by somebody? Should we look for allies among moderate liberals, moderate or radical left? In general, what political force should we pay attention to?
Platonov: We, before entering into alliances and coalitions, must turn to our own identity, understand who we are. In this sense, the last meeting of the Prometey Discussion Club very important event, we started a dialogue. Now many rightists are closed in their idea. Many leftists in Russia are obsessed with an atheistic agenda. And if we want to break out of the political crisis, we must be ready for dialogue.
Vespa: If look at Western Europe, then there is a revival of traditionalist ideas at the level of philosophical and grassroots, popular movements (identitarists, etc.), then in Eastern Europe, reliance on right-wing political elites (Poland, Hungary). Will these two different ways of returning to Tradition lead to a split in the European Union or is this a temporary phenomenon?
PlatonovA: I think a compromise will be found. Just Eastern Europe is a bit late in this division of elites. I think there will be no conflict between the two parts, but there will be a synthesis. A united Europe, even if the European Union collapses, can exist - Europe of Nations and Freedoms. Common points of interaction will be found - anti-globalism, anti-capitalism, anti-imperialism and the desire to create counter-hegemony.
Vespa: Is there an opinion on the situation in the US? After all, we see that Trump does not realize all his ideas. He is bound to his hands and feet. In America, the left is strong, both in power and in society. What is waiting for America?
Platonov: For us, Trump is a chance to strengthen our position in various regions. For example, in Syria, as soon as he came to power, the situation changed dramatically and our troops began to win victories (approx. editors - while rhetoric remains tough). As for the United States, everything is not unequivocal, there are not only left-liberals, but also so-called alternative left, condemning both cultural Marxism and neo-conservatism, originating in Trotskyism, and believing in the ideals of the left communist movement. Alt-right in the United States failed, the movement was discredited including torchlight processions and avoiding the real question of identity. I think that it was not without provocations inside the movement. And the altweight is now in crisis. The situation is not stable, and the United States is also waiting for a civil war.
Vespa: If you let down total, then and Russia, and Europe and the United States waiting for a certain crisis ideological, civil tension. And where the pendulum will swing is not completely clear. there is dangerthat will throw us into the deep left-liberal swamp.
Platonov: What will happen to the United States is not clear, not being in that space, I can not say for sure. What will happen to Russia is also unknown. All the will of God. The situation is changing rapidly. For example, today liberalism is attacking not only from the side of gender theory, but is beginning to use the metaphor of artificial intelligence. And in the Russian Federation, the demand for such systems is growing, unfortunately. Therefore, the philosophical challenge of Russia, our right-wing values are thrown. The arrival of a postman in the place of a person is a new threat.
Vespa: On One of Prometheus expressed the idea that it is necessary to rely not on ideological and political views, but on ideological ones. Can a worldview unite European conservatives against left-liberalism and degenerative tendencies? How long will such a union be?
Platonov: I think this union already exists. For example, in the European Parliament "Europe of Nations and Freedoms", the league of Marin Le Pen includes representatives of more than 7 parties. It's not the future, it's the present.
Vespa: And Russia, the Russians, should we join this union and accept us there?
Platonov: Of course, will, and accept. Marine Le Pen met before the election with the President of Russia. Dialogue is established. For example, many European parliamentarians have visited Crimea and recognize it as Russian. There is hope!
Vespa: There is hope for the future, but there are problems today. how do you appreciate the expulsion of Russian diplomats, initiated by the conservative party of Britain, are there any among our rightists in London? allies, there are Are there antiglobalists of the right sense?
Platonov: ЗHere we have an attempt to deploy not even a diplomatic, but a real global war. Moreover, they are pitting old opponents - Russia and the Anglo-Saxon bloc. The problem is that all this hysteria began when Britain leaves the EU, renounces its ultraglobalist essence and goes to the flank of the neutral zone, conditional Rimland. And at this very moment someone “kills” the ex-GRU agent and a strange and sharp cooling of relations between Russia and Britain, and then all of Europe, takes place. We will not go into conspiracy, but clearly this situation plays into the hands of globalist forces that do not want to lose control over the European space and commit sabotage actions that can destroy our relations.
Vespa: Meanwhile нbut parliamentary elections in Italy, Salvini won the party and now he has a great chance to become the Prime Minister of Italy. But at the same time, we see the force with which the anti-Russian forces are mobilizing. Is there a chance in these conditions for the pro-Russian euro-skeptics to gain a foothold in power and break the Russophobic trend?
Platonov: Unfortunately, the results of the Italian elections are not so straightforward. Still not formed a majority in the government. Despite the fact that the Salvini coalition has achieved excellent results, it does not have a parliamentary majority. The situation in Italy is extremely unstable, experts say about the possibility of new elections in Italy. Of course, the ideal situation would be a coalition of the Five Stars Movement and the League of the North. Because they are quite close in Euroskepticism and the international political line, however, they are divorced today on different flanks of the political arena. In Italy - a situation of political uncertainty. We do not have a clear picture of what will happen in Italy. There is a certain tendency to destabilize the EU elites, strong populist sentiments, however, the “populist uprising”, the populist moment at the moment, has not resulted in anything concrete. The parties that led this “uprising” are not yet strong enough to change the course of history and transform the European space.
Vespa: Dasha, thanks for taking the time to chat. As a summary of our meeting, we can say that the world still has a place for Tradition, but it will have to be overcome?
Platonov: Certainly. Thanks you!